Are you interested in fresh ways to explore the Christmas story? Would you like your church, mission, or community to have the story of the birth of Christ come alive—by engaging Luke’s Gospel through storytelling, drama, and group discovery?
“Honor and Shame in the Christmas Story” is a seven-lesson Bible study for all kinds of groups. It’s based directly on the first two chapters of the Gospel of Luke. Each lesson is easy to follow—just one or two pages. Here are the seven lessons:
Lesson 1: The story of Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5–25), parents of John the Baptist
Lesson 2: God sends the angel Gabriel to talk with Mary (Luke 1:26–38)
Lesson 3: Mary visits Elizabeth / Mary sings praise to God (Luke 1:39–56)
Lesson 4: At last, Zechariah is a father (Luke 1:57–66)
Lesson 5: Zechariah praises God and prophesies (Luke 1:67–80)
Lesson 6: The birth of Jesus in the time of Caesar Augustus (Luke 2:1–7)
Lesson 7: Lowly Shepherds and Highest Angels in Jesus’s Story (Luke 2:8–20)
These Bible studies highlight the honor-shame dynamics hidden in plain sight. The Bible study questions are designed to help a group make their own discoveries from the story. We also suggest ways to dramatize parts of the stories.
I used Claude AI to make the translations. I instructed Claude to draw from the Bible translations most commonly used by Protestant churches in the represented language groups.
The translations of these Bible studies are likely imperfect, so edit as you see fit. All translations are in Microsoft Word, except the English version, which is a PDF. You may also want to edit the study for other reasons. No problem. Edit as you like.
Download below—(Word files, so you can edit them; English is a PDF)
“Honor and Shame in the Christmas Story”—would you like this resource available in another language? Send me an email at wernermischke@icloud.com. I will have the document translated and added to the list above.
“One New Humanity is a powerful and timely call for the Church to rediscover its role as a reconciling presence in a divided world. . . . Love it!”–Alan Hirsch
Kristin Caynor and Werner Mischke are grateful that One New Humanity is now available after more than four years of research.
One New Humanity argues that Ephesians 2 offers a radical vision of human dignity and peace that challenges the shame and violence of the Roman Empire and the contemporary world. Drawing on insights from early Christians, the global church, social sciences, and the biblical narrative, we show that through Christ’s life, death, and resurrection, we gain a peaceable way of being human for the world—impacting identity, relationships, church, and vocation. In the process of deeply examining glory, violence, and the gospel of peace, we answer the question, “What does it mean to be human?”
My 32-year career with Mission ONE just came to a close at the end of 2024.
I am humbled and grateful for all the ways that I was honored to learn from and collaborate with—people in the global church, both in the United States and in various parts of the world. Profound thanks are due to the many generous people who have supported my ministry with Mission ONE. None of us can do what we do on our own. We are all interdependent. We are part of the body of Christ with every member giving and doing its part so that the body thrives. I feel unjustly blessed. God is faithful.
Bob Schindler, the founder of Mission ONE, remains my dearest friend; it has been a wonderful privilege to serve alongside him all these years. Olivia Mulerwa has been Mission ONE’s president for three years. Olivia has embraced Mission ONE’s original DNA and is truly building on that. I believe I am leaving Mission ONE when it is in a healthy place and getting healthier. By God’s grace, I also plan to collaborate with some Mission ONE partners in 2025—doing some teaching and training in India and Nepal concerning honor, shame, and the gospel.
What’s next for me? 1) Finishing a four-year book project, and 2) a new season of ministry focusing on the gospel of peace for all persons and peoples, and honor-shame in missiology and theology. These two arenas are briefly described below.
1) Forthcoming book: One New Humanity: Glory, Violence, and the Gospel of Peace
One New Humanity: Glory, Violence, and the Gospel of Peace, by Kristin Caynor and Werner Mischke (William Carey Publishing, April 2025)
Here’s the book thesis: One New Humanity argues that Ephesians 2 offers a radical vision of human dignity and peace that challenges the shame and violence of the Roman Empire and the contemporary world. Drawing on insights from early Christians, the global church, social sciences, and the biblical narrative, we show that through Christ’s life, death, and resurrection, we gain a peaceable way of being human for the world—impacting identity, relationships, church, and vocation. In the process of deeply examining glory, violence, and the gospel of peace, we answer the question, “What does it mean to be human?”
The book has three sections: 1) GLORY and Shame, 2) VIOLENCE and Sin, 3) The GOSPEL OF PEACE and its King. Zac Niringiye, who served as an advisor to us on the book project, provides the Afterword. Brad Vaughn (a.k.a. Jackson Wu) provides a rich and compelling theological article, “Reconciling Atonement in Ephesians 2” as Appendix 1. CLICK HERE for a chapter-by-chapter overview of the book.
Kristin Caynor and I have been working on this book for four years. The book layout is nearly complete, and it is now going into the proofreading stage. Kristin and I hope the book will be a catalyst for many crucial conversations—near and far.
2) A new season of ministry focusing on the gospel of peace for all persons and peoples, and honor-shame in missiology and theology
I will be under the ministry umbrella of Antioch Network as an independent contractor. Their ministry is about unreached peoples, and reconciliation. I have known some of their key leaders. Antioch Network is a good fit.
My work will have three areas of emphasis:
Christ’s gospel of peace for all persons and peoples
King Jesus, our example of true humanity
Honor-shame in missiology, theology, and the gospel
My activities will include:
Writing about various facets of Christ’s gospel of peace for all persons and peoples
Facilitate conversations and conferences about the gospel of peace and honor-shame
Speaking, training, writing—advocating for Christ-centered peacemaking, and honor-shame in missiology and theology
Serving locally and globally through open doors of ministry
I am calling my ministry “Werner Mischke / Far & Near” (the far-and-near theme comes from Eph 2:17). Want to learn more? CLICK HERE for a two-page overview.
Finally, I want to share this verse below (John 15:2). It was meaningful to me when I left my business in 1992 to join Mission ONE; this verse is meaningful to me today. Naturally, there is pain in any pruning, but there is also the hope of more fruitfulness. This is how I am seeing my transition. Are you facing any “pruning” in your life? Take heart. God is faithful.
Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
Contextual Issues of Honor & Shame in Spiritual Formation
September 11–13, 2023 10:00 am to 12:00 pm (GMT + 8:00)
From the Singapore Bible College website: Join us for an exchange of reflections and insights as a group of 10 theologians, biblical scholars, and missiologists from around the world come together to explore the role of honor and shame in spiritual formation through the lens of contextualization processes, and how the gospel transforms culture. The presentation centers around the Pacific Rim but also considers input from other regions.
I just pre-ordered my copy. Can’t wait to read it. The subject of honor and shame relates profoundly to our personal spiritual experience in the Christian faith. I encourage you to check it out. The readings are short and accessible to a non-academic audience—perfect for a daily devotional.
It was the afternoon of Good Friday, April 15, 2022. Frederic and I were seated in a small home in Reconciliation Village, Nyamata, Rwanda. It was storytelling time. We gathered closely around a small coffee table—with four other villagers, Lillian fromAfrica New Life, and my colleague Kristin.
We had just listened to three stories. Two stories were from Hutu men who were part of the 1994 Genocide as perpetrators. One story was from Jacqueline. She was 17 years old when the Genocide occurred.
Jacqueline had been out in the field tending the family cows. When she returned to her house in Nyamata, she found the Hutu mob had killed her entire Tutsi family of eleven.
More than 10,000 other Tutsi had fled to the local church property in Nyamata for shelter and safety. They also were brutally murdered—with guns, machetes, clubs, grenades. (We visited this Nyamata Church Genocide Memorial on that Friday morning. Horrifying.)
Jacqueline fled into the forest and survived.
Frederic’s story
Also sharing their story was Frederic, a Hutu. “I was one of the perpetrators,” he said to us plainly. Frederic was arrested by the new government and imprisoned like thousands of other young Hutu men after the Genocide. (Frederick did not go into any detail about the crimes or atrocities he may have committed.)
While in prison, Frederic heard the preaching of many pastors. “Confess your crimes, and seek forgiveness. God will forgive all your sins.” Many prisoners could not believe it. They were afraid that Tutsi would kill them in revenge—at first while in prison and later upon being released.
Frederic became honest about his crimes of violence. His honesty and humility had been a step toward freedom. Rwanda’s new government had created a policy to reward honest confession; as a result, many were allowed to return to their Rwandan homelands. Frederic went back to his home area.
I asked, “You who were the perpetrators, do you ever look back and think of yourselves as victims?” They said, “Yes, in part, we are also victims. It is because we had bad leadership. Every day, we were told lies about the Tutsi that they were cockroaches, not real humans, that they should die.”
I wondered aloud, “If I had been in your community with all the propaganda every day about the so-called enemies in your land to attack them and kill them, would I have done differently or done the same as you?”
After the Genocide, the new Rwandan government welcomed back tens of thousands of Rwandans living in other nations. Thousands came back from Uganda, Congo, and Tanzania—ready to help rebuild their country, Rwanda. But this created a big problem. A massive number of displaced peoples had nowhere to live.
An idea is born: Village of Reconciliation
The US-based ministry Prison Fellowship, which had an office in Rwanda, funded the development of a “village of reconciliation.” The idea was to bring together both victims and perpetrators in a real-life, living-together kind of reconciliation in the same community. It was an experiment in restorative justice. The experiment has proven successful.
Frederic told us, “Because I had been honest about being a perpetrator, the officials asked me to be one of the village leaders. So I agreed. We constructed the first homes in the village in 2004. Other men and I helped to make the bricks. We worked together building the homes. Here we are 18 years later. Today, we work together in our gardens to provide food for the community. Our children are living and playing together in peace.”
After the villagers finished their stories, they concluded: “Two things we want you to remember: First, the Genocide in Rwanda happened, even though some say it did not. And second, true reconciliation is possible; we are proof of that.”
Sharing a bit of my story
Sitting right next to Frederic, I thought it would be good for me to tell a bit of my story. I did not want Frederic to believe I was so different from him.
I said, “My parents were from Germany. The German government drafted my father into Hitler’s army. Near the end of the war, the Allied Forces captured my father, and he became a prisoner of war for four years in Poland. After he was released, my grandfather took his family with three sons, and they all came to America. My grandfather wanted to go far away from the Russians. My German father and mother married in America, so I was born there.”
My colleague Kristin then asked, “Werner, we see here the openness and honesty of this community; is this openness possibly different from how you grew up? Is their honesty touching you in a way that you did not expect?”
Suddenly, a new topic was on the table in front of us. Open, authentic talking about painful, even shameful things—what does this mean for us?
“Wow. Good question, Kristin,” I replied. As I was growing up, I learned about the Holocaust in Germany in World War 2. I asked my parents about it. They did not want to discuss it. They did not want to talk about the horrors of German people being part of the program to kill 6 million innocent Jews.
I asked the group: “You know there have been genocides in other lands, right?” They nodded, yes.
I spoke about the concentration camp Auschwitz. At Auschwitz, the Germans killed 20,000 people a day through gas chambers and burning. Indeed, Rwanda is not the only land with genocide in its history.
I told our little group that I still had questions about my grandfather’s role in Germany’s brutalities in WW2. He was a businessman who sold fuel. He was trying to survive and feed his family. But what if my grandfather sold gasoline to the German army, which helped them do evil? Was my grandfather complicit?
I also said that my father and one uncle suffered from mental illnesses. Was it because they could not talk honestly or openly about the painful, shameful things they suffered?
Any questions for us?
I said to our little group, “We have asked you questions. Do you have any questions for us?”
Frederic said, “I have a question. You shared about your family and grandfather. Do you still have some pains in your heart about what your grandfather may have done? If so, has this time with us been helpful to you?”
Frederic’s question surprised me. I thanked him for his concern about the possible pains in my heart. “Yes, I have been helped. Your honesty and openness are different from how I grew up with family secrets. You are willing to talk about very painful things in a spirit of forgiveness.”
“For many years, I had like a shadow of shame over the questions about my German family and my father’s mental illness. But in recent years, I have been learning that Jesus does not just forgive our guilt. He also covers our shame.”
Frederic thanked us. He said I was just the second visitor to their village in 18 years who, after hearing the stories of the victims and perpetrators, also openly shared from his heart.
I felt a strange closeness to Frederic. There was comfort in being together with these men and women in the Village of Reconciliation, Nyamata, Rwanda. I think it was how Frederic and others in the room had been so honest. It was an unusual vulnerability. It felt healthy, like fresh air. If reconciliation is possible here, it is possible anywhere.
I waved my hand across the table in front of us. “We are together sharing in our humanity. We all have struggles. We all need the love of God,” I said.
The Rwandan woman in whose tiny home we had gathered (she has the green sweater in the photo below) gave a closing prayer. She thanked the Lord for our fellowship. She prayed for us and blessed us in the name of Jesus.
Inside a home in the Village of Reconciliation in Nyamata, with victims and perpetrators of the 1994 Rwandan Genocide. Jacqueline, mentioned above as a victim who lost eleven family members, is third from right.Get an overview of the project here.Support the project here.
Why were we in Rwanda?
We are in Africa on behalf of Mission ONE to conduct research for the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project. Our experiences in Rwanda have been instructive and inspiring.
The Ephesians 2 Gospel Project is about horizontal reconciliation through the cross of Christ. There is a social, horizontal dimension to the gospel of Christ because there is a social, horizontal dimension to the atonement of Christ. The gospel of peace offers reconciliation to groups in conflict (Eph. 2:13–17).
Rwanda is an important place to learn for the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project for two reasons:
The 1994 Rwandan genocide by the Hutu against the Tutsi people resulted in 1 million people brutally murdered in 100 days; the church was significantly complicit.
Since 1994, Rwanda has experienced a nationwide movement of reconciliation despite enormous struggles and ongoing trauma. There has been much positive development that would have been impossible without the profound involvement of the church and the reconciling gospel of Jesus Christ.
Final thoughts
On Tuesday, we visited the Kigali Genocide Memorial. It is the final resting place for more than 250,000 victims of the Genocide against the Tutsi. Incredible. Check out the website.
Want to support the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project? Donate here.
This text, Ephesians 2:13–17, speaks of reconciliation between peoples— through the cross of Christ.
13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached [the gospel of] peace to you were far off and peace to those who were near. –Ephesians 2:13–17 (ESV)
Some questions:
What aspects of this text speak exclusively to Jew-Gentile reconciliation in the church? What aspects of the text speak of reconciliation between Gentile peoples, tribes, or other social groups in the church?
What does it look like in a given local context when Jesus Christ, the One who is all in all (Eph 1:23), is the Savior-King through whom our tribal, racial, or status divisions in the church are resolved?
What does it look like in a given local context when the crucified Christ, having “killed the hostility” (Eph 2:16), becomes the body of Christ living as the “one new man” (Eph 2:15)?
This text (Eph 2:13–17) has dense atonement-and-gospel content; why, then, has it been broadly ignored in atonement doctrine—especially at the popular level? Why do few pastors preach on this text concerning the meaning of the cross of Christ?
To what degree is collective identity conflict addressed by the atonement verses in Ephesians 2:13–17? Does the atonement of Christ/gospel of peace offer reconciliation horizontally between groups in competition or in conflict within the church?
How was this text used, abused, or ignored in three historical contexts when the church failed to halt violence and bloodshed—despite widespread Christian influence in the nation?
Christianity and the genocide in Rwanda, 1994
Christianity and the German Reich, 1933–45
Christianity and America—slavery and racism
How does Eph 2:11–22 fit into the broader context of Ephesians? How does this text relate to the three passages that refer to cosmic powers of darkness, “rulers and authorities” (Eph 1:21; 3:10; 6:12).
Does this text speak of a reconciliation in Christ that is simultaneously vertical with God and horizontal within God’s people?
How does this text speak to the problem of group-based honor competition or tribalism in the Global Church? How might this text speak to the church in America?
How does this text challenge our Western bias toward individualism in theology?
What can we learn from Early Church interpretations of this text?
What honor-shame dynamics in the Roman Empire might inform our interpretation of this text? (I begin to address this here.)
How do scholars and preachers from minority groups interpret this text?
What might this text say to the Church Growth Movement or the Unreached Peoples Movement?
In service of our Savior-King and the global church, to what degree can a team of scholars and practitioners from around the world, be in fellowship on a journey together, to answer these questions?
More on the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project will appear here in forthcoming posts from our ongoing research. Subscribe and stay tuned. Or write to me at werner@mission1.org.
At the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp on August 6, 2015, I took this picture of myself in front of an aerial photo of the center. I did this to acknowledge the shame of human beings (me being of the same species) who committed the atrocities there.
First, some background material:
But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached [the gospel of] peace to you were far off and peace to those who were near.
Ephesians 2:13–17 (ESV)
We launched the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project (E2GP) through my work with Mission ONE in January 2021. The key idea of the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project is this: There is a social and horizontal dimension to the gospel of Christ because there is a social and horizontal dimension to the atonement of Christ (Eph 2:13–17). Our short-term goal is a book. Our desired long-term impact is God’s people drawn into and embodying Christ’s peacemaking work through the gospel.
E2GP is a two-year research project which includes:
listening to and learning from the Global Church, including Mission ONE ministry partners,
grappling with relevant questions about the gospel, the atonement of Christ, the global mission of the church, and why the church has sometimes been complicit with conflict and violence,
reading relevant literature (books and articles) on history, theology, missiology, the social sciences,
writing a book (to be co-authored with Kristin Caynor), which is the catalyst for developing other resources for learning and practice,
facilitating a fellowship of Christian scholars and practitioners around the world to study and embody the gospel of peace as a solution to collective-identity conflict in the church in their own nations and contexts.
Since last January, Kristin Caynor has been contributing as a research assistant to the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project. Kristin grew up on the mission field; she and her parents serve with a mission organization similar to Mission ONE. Kristin is a qualified researcher. She has a lot of cross-cultural ministry experience, has a passion for helping marginalized peoples in the global church, and is a Ph.D. candidate at Trinity College Bristol/University of Aberdeen. (Check it out:Kristin’s recent lecture on the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project is for the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence; it is outstanding. You can view the video here.)
About Germany and the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project
I am the son of German immigrant parents. My father was a soldier in Hitler’s army; he was a prisoner of war in Poland for four years. He became mentally ill in my teenage years. I took on a shadow of shame from my father and family.
Concerning WW2 Germany, the juxtaposition of two truths (below) should cause us to shudder.
WW2 Germany and Europe was the location of a massive violence and bloodshed. A central part of this conflict was the Holocaust (or Shoah). It was a deliberate, sustained, unspeakable evil. It was murder on the largest scale committed against the Jews on behalf of the supposed superiority of the German (Aryan) race.
At the time of Hitler’s rule, Germany’s people identified as 97% Christian.
Here’s how Holocaust scholar Robert Ericksen describes this statistic of Germany’s people identifying as 97% Christian.
“When Adolf Hitler came to power, 97 percent of the German population considered itself Christian, with about two-thirds being Protestant and one-third Catholic. Less than 1 percent of Germans were Jewish in 1933, and only a slightly larger percentage registered as pagans or nonbelievers. It is true that the entire 97 percent registered as Christian did not attend church regularly or maintain a vibrant Christian identity. However, all of them agreed to pay the church tax, money they could have saved by the simple act of leaving their church. Furthermore, they received religious education in all German schools, and, of course, many of these 97 percent of the population were fervent Christians active in their faith. Germany in the 1930s almost certainly represented church attendance and a sense of Christian commitment and identity similar to that in America today, for example.”
Robert P. Ericksen, Complicity in the Holocaust: Churches and Universities in Nazi Germany (New York: Cambridge University Press, 2012), 9.
In Germany: Centuries of accrued Christian influence from the church, a population that identifies as 97% Christian … and yet, the Holocaust. How does this add up? How can this be?
Missionaries and missions scholars sometimes speak of the “redemptive lift” that comes to a community when the gospel of Jesus is embraced. I believe this.
But what happened in WW2 Germany? Widespread systemic evil and violence occurred in the society, despite the broad sustained influence of Christianity. Could it be that in the rise of Hitler’s Germany, somehow Christianity was complicit with a redemptive fall?
Was there a dimension of the gospel de-emphasized, tragically ignored?
Was there a cosmic, systemic dimension of sin ignored?
Were there forces—social, systemic, cosmic—against which the German peoples’ Christian faith had little or no defense?
Did the church in Germany ignore, abuse, or conceal the gospel text of Ephesiasn 2?
Is the gospel of peace (Eph 2:13–17; 6:15) about individual, vertical, personal peace-with-God—or something more social, horizontal, and corporate?
We hope to address these questions, among many others, in the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project through a journey together in the Global Church.
What can we learn from the tragic failure of the church in WW2 Germany? How might these lessons apply to nations today that are dealing with collective identity conflict or tribal conflict? What lessons can we learn about the kind of gospel we are preaching and living?
More on the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project will appear here in forthcoming posts from our ongoing research. Subscribe and stay tuned.
In my ministry with Mission ONE, I am working on a multi-year project called the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project.
Here’s the big idea: There is a social, horizontal dimension to the gospel of Christ because there is a social, horizontal dimension to the atonement of Christ (Eph 2:13–17).
Hindustan Bible Institute & College(HBI) has invited me and researcher Kristin Caynor to introduce the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project through HBI’s monthly webinar series. You are invited to join us!
Date: Friday, October 8, 2021
Time: 8:30 a.m. USA Eastern Time / 6:00 p.m. Indian Standard Time (Time Zone Converter)
Platform: Zoom video conference
Title:“Ephesians 2 Gospel Project: Does the Atonement Speak to Collective Identity Conflict?”
Format: a) 20-minute presentation by Werner Mischke, b) 20-minute presentation by researcher Kristin Caynor, c) 10-minute response by HBI scholar, d) Questions and discussion
My presentation will introduce the project. I’ll discuss the social/horizontal aspect of the reconciling work of the cross in Eph. 2:11–22. Kristin Caynor’s presentation focuses on how Early Church fathers interpreted Eph. 2:11–22.
We have two goals for the HBI webinar: 1) Describe in brief the research we have done so far in the Ephesians 2 Gospel Project, and 2) invite the HBI scholar community into the learning journey with us. We want the resources that are developed to be by and for the global church.
Doing Theology, Thinking Mission is available on most podcast platforms. Here’s a link to one: Apple podcasts.
I am enthused about our new podcast “Doing Theology, Thinking Mission.” Here’s why…
1) It meets a need. You will hear compelling (and surprising!) explorations of how Christian theology and the church’s mission relate to each other; that’s pretty special in the world of podcasts. We cover contextualization, honor and shame, biblical interpretation, and the church’s mission in the world.
2) It’s engaging. Dr. Jackson Wu, Carrie Vaughn, and I genuinely enjoy conversing together about the issues we cover and the stories we tell. I’m pretty sure our joy and passion leak through.
3) It’s relevant. It is no small challenge to make the Bible’s story and truths, centered in the life of Jesus Christ, relevant to our broken world. It is an endless quest with lots of discoveries along the way. I hope that this podcast will be a help for many on that same quest.
Check out Episode 1: “How the Bible Frames the Gospel”
In episode 1, we explore the way the Bible consistently frames the gospel. While gospel formulas are comfortable, our pursuit of simple, efficient, and portable gospel explanations have led to an anemic church. Is the gospel the message about how to get saved? Maybe not completely. What if the gospel is not so much the message about how we get saved but the message we must believe in order to be saved?
We also explore the following:
“We compromise the gospel when we settle for the truth.” What does this mean?
Creation, Covenant, and Kingdom—the three gospel frameworks found in the Bible.
Is the truth that “Jesus is King” central to the gospel?
Doing Theology, Thinking Mission is available on most podcast platforms. Here’s a link to one: Apple podcasts.